Richard Davies wrote: The UK has a good crop of technology pioneers in cloud computing - for example ElasticHosts, FlexiScale, Flexiant, OnApp - and also some strong government initiatives such as G-Cloud.
We will have to see whether this kind of technical leadership converts into swift mass-market adoption or not.
"As of today," writes Tim Bray in his popular blog, "I work for Sun." ("Let's see; Java rocks. Microsoft sucks. I can play that tune," he adds, with a characteristically mischievous tone.)
Bray is now officially titled a Technology Director but thinks that "maybe we can think up something more illuminating for my business card." (Readers of JDJ may have their own suggestions, imaginative group that they are.)
"Seriously," Bray writes, "I think I convinced John Fowler that I could be useful and he convinced me that Sun could be fun and we didn't get into micro-managing. Last week I was talking to a journalist about the job and there was a Sun PR handler on the call (there's a new experience); she IM'ed me next gen tech and standards development at the intersection of RSS, XML and advanced search technologies. Decent, I thought, and the journo seemed to like it too. Later John told me the phrase came from the position description he wrote."
"Anyhow, this job is going to be pretty public-facing," writes Bray, "So you'll find out lots of what I'm doing more or less as I do it."
He continues:
"Why Sun? What happened was, Simon Phipps introduced me to John Fowler who, I can now reveal, invented the term open-source person. He's 'Software CTO' there, and we spent an hour and change talking about what I'm interested in and what Sun is interested in. In follow-up, he suggested I check with my friends at Sun to get the inside story on what it was like to work there.
I liked what I heard, and John got a position approved, and Liz Friley the recruiting angel managed to get the Canadian HR people to arrange to hire a Canadian to report to someone in another country in a position that doesn't exist in the Canadian org chart, and I got a FAX with an offer on it.
When you can get through to a decision-maker at a company and the decision-maker can make a decision and the staff can execute on it, in my mind that's a useful indicator that it's a company where you might want to work. Because there's a lot of big companies that fail this simple test.
Another reason was that I have a lot of friends already at Sun, including some who were there for the heavy sledding around the birth of XML, which was a pretty damn intense shared experience.
Another reason was the fact that Sun's a big company. I haven't worked for one of those since 1987, and never in any kind of senior position, so this will be a totally new experience for me, and I'm a novelty junkie, bad as any chimp.
Another reason is that I like computers, and Sun makes good ones. My first job was with Digital Equipment Corporation, at that time the world's second-largest computer company."
Another reason, Bray notes, was the job itself. Sun was not the only choice, he also points out. He had two other opportunities "and they were both great and I knew that whichever one I accepted I'd be weeping over the other two, and I am."
"One was a group that's building what may be the world's strongest search-technology team to address a real interesting problem. And I would have taken it in a flash... but the fit with Sun was just a little bit better. Then there was a hot startup, the kind of organization I said I wasn't looking for; I totally love the people there, and I think they have a good chance of changing the world and making a huge pile of money. Plus, I have experience in some areas where they need help building out. The problem was, in that job I'd be responsible for building and maintaining a popular high-volume Web site. Which has been more or less what I've been doing since 1994. And I wanted something different this time. Maybe I walked away from the time of my life and a few million dollars; we'll see."
"So, here I am at Sun," Bray resumes.
"Which brings me to the Java Rocks, Microsoft Sucks mantra. Java Rocks? Java is how most important server-side applications get written, and I think Java is going to go on being the way they get written, and I think that's fine. Java is substantially better than what came before; for some things you're always going to need C code, but I sincerely hope and expect that C++ will end up in history's dustbin.
The pundits and prognosticators see .NET as a threat to Java's future, but that's silly. Parts of .NET look technically excellent, but it has three fatal flaws:
It makes no attempt to hit an 80/20 point. Java was actually pretty lean-and-mean when 1.0 launched and has grown into its current middle-aged spread fairly smoothly. .NET launched as a kitchen-sink-equipped behemoth; it had a legacy problem on Day One.
.NET was created by a company with a historic focus on (and infinite experience with) desktop applications, and has a lot of apparatus aimed at building desktop applications. I'm sorry; for most businesses, desktop applications aren't interesting. Put your business logic on the server side and use the Web for your delivery platform. (I think the interesting client applications are on mobile phones and PDAs, these days; and Java looks like a good way to build those, too).
.NET comes with the Microsoft agenda attached, wide as the horizon and high as the sky. That agenda is becoming markedly less and less popular among the CIOs and technology buyers of the world. This, I think, is the most serious problem .NET faces.
In fact I personally believe that Java's share of enterprise software will decline, but not in favor of anything from Redmond. I think that dynamic languages (Python and friends), particularly in conjunction with Test-Driven Development, are looking more like winners all the time. They generally are cheaper to program in, run just as fast, and have fewer bugs; what’s not to like? There is one huge niche that the strongly-typed statically-compiled languages are never going to be driven out of, but I'll save writing about that for later because I've got a major skunkworks in mind.
Microsoft Sucks? We all like to take cheap shots at Microsoft, but we shouldn't start believing in them too much. Microsoft is smart and fast and rich and I think should be taken very seriously."
"That aside," Bray ends, "I'm comfy being officially a direct competitor of Microsoft. On the technical side, I find the APIs inelegant, the UI aesthetics juvenile, and the neglect of the browser maddening. On the business side, I prefer markets to monocultures, I think that when you're continually being sued by elected governments it's indicative of an ethics problem, and I hate ludicrously overpriced products (when gross margins are pushing 100% on products that deliver billions in free cash-flow per quarter, the prices are by definition way out there)."
"On the other hand," he concedes, "Microsoft has shipped some excellent technology over the years and when they've done something good I've said so, publicly. And there are excellent, smart, honourable people working there that I'm proud to call friends."
He adds a note re blogging:
"Which brings me to this: lots of VIPs at Sun are super-hot on blogging and syndication and building bridges to developers and customers and internal users. So I'm pretty sure I'll end up putting some cycles into that area of work."
Before ending in classic flamboyant Bray style:
"So, dear reader, can you now discount everything I say because I'm a Sunny Boy? That's your call. And I'm not gonna pretend that working here won't change what I write. But I can make this promise: I won't ever write anything here that I don't believe. On the other hand, I may well suppress stuff; for example, should Sun's CEO say something that I profoundly disagree with, I'm unlikely to be writing 'McNealy, what an asshat' here.
To use the internal Sun jargon, ongoing will not become a 'Sun property.' That is to say, there won't be a Sun logo on the front and I won't be asking for approval on what I write here, except for from Lauren and the spell-checker. I have put a little disclaimer over there to your left because I think it's always important to know who pays the people whose writing you're reading.
Despite what I said earlier, I think I'll go on running the Google ads for now, assuming nobody at Sun gets irritated. The fact that they cover the hosting costs is nice (although it's not close to being serious money). But there are better reasons. First, I want to understand this whole blogging/syndication thing, and revenue is an important part of the mix. Second, to use a tired word, AdSense helps me feel the zeitgeist. Third, the AdSense reports on impressions and click-through rates are fascinating if you're a raw-data junkie, and I'm the worst kind."
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#8
Mr T commented on 19 Mar 2004
Mr Bray is right about one thing - the Microsoft agenda. It will bode well for .NET to be linux compatible, but will Gates & co let it ?. I doubt it. Given the projected growth of Linux, .NET is not really helped that much never mind that nonesense called Mono.
.NET or .not Microsoft is no longer indispensable asfar as Software development is concerned. I dont do anything Microsoft and I''m very well paid, thank you very much.
#7
Dan commented on 19 Mar 2004
I am not an expert on the market between thin and fat client, but one thing I know is that MS is expensive. I would think considering the economics of maintaining desktops for corporations, their will be a tapestry of desktop environments with variations of Linux making headway. This will necessitate any app that a customer is going to utilize be accessible on both Linux and Windows with similar look and feel if not identical...kind of like the new Office suite coming out of China. I don''t see how writing to Win32 is beneficial when Win32 is only good in one market(albeit a very large market). I would imagine once the BPOs in India are proficient with administrating Linux desktops that Linux will start to eat away at the MS strangle hold on the corporate desktop. BTW, this opinion is coming from a Java developer that is developing in .Net.
#6
Greg commented on 19 Mar 2004
By "desktop applications" does he mean thick Win32 clients, as opposed to applications delivered through a browser? If so, dream on. After a decade of browser improvements, DHTML, CSS, JSP, PHP, etc. etc. etc. that technology is still incapable of supporting any substantial line of business applications. Its one thing to buy a book from Amazon, but it''s quite another to spend eight hours a day inside IE (or whatever). The real issue is solving the problems and hassles associated with enterprise-wide distribution of Win32 clients. Unfortunately, while .NET has some good parts to its story in that area, until they solve the issue of the .NET runtime not being widely preinstalled, .NET on the desktop is going to have the same slow adoption curve as J2EE on the desktop.
#5
iyyappan commented on 19 Mar 2004
Thin client is thin ice.
There will be some demand for Thin clients and some demand for Desktops.
Those who ignore Desktop may lose market.
#4
iyyappan commented on 19 Mar 2004
Thin client is thin ice.
There will be some demand for Thin clients and some demand for Desktops.
Those who ignore Desktop may lose market.
#3
Ben commented on 18 Mar 2004
Regarding the 80-20 stuff, all I will say is that if MS had launched something as small as Java 1.0 was (and naturally so, that was aeons ago) , it would have been dismissed immediately as not being substantial enough to compete. As it is in many places the .NET stack has more to offer than J2EE.
And on the comment that the API''s are inelegant the UI aesthetics juvenile,
a) How much programming has he actually done in .NET? Sure , some of it is only a thin wrapper over Win32 , but thats part of the plan from MS. They cannot easily rewrite millions of lines of code and thousands of API;s and they need to start with the wrappers and then go on to change the internals. The Win32 API''s are not elegant, but there is plenty in .NET that is. Come on, Java has been around for ages and ages. You would expect maturity from it given the amount of contribution from various companies. NET is still a fledgling and just see how it grows.
b) I would like to remind Mr Bray that not everyone is interested in enterprise apps. There is a huge market for desktop stuff. Thick client UI design tools
from MS have set the trend for a long time. Swing and other libraries just dont do as well. And Sun has only recently mustered up Javaserver Faces, (an ''event'' driven model.. bah ... MS has had that for ages) and another one i cant remember , to ''wean'' people away from Visual Basic. WHy does Sun care about the desktop market now?
Now dont get me wrong . I dont hate J2EE. I think .NET is a worthy competitor. It has its flaws and in some ways its better than J2EE. It would be foolish to dismiss it out of hand. People were doing this 2 or 3 years ago when it came out and half the java developers i know are all doing .NET now.
So i sit back and wait for the flames.
#2
Roger Sperberg commented on 17 Mar 2004
Re: "next gen tech ... development at the intersection of RSS, XML and advanced search technologies" -- I pretty much agree, except I don''t know how much RSS portends the future. I would have said "the intersection of RDF, XML and advanced search." Expressing relations is the key element in this, IMHO.
#1
Roger Sperberg commented on 17 Mar 2004
Re: "next gen tech ... development at the intersection of RSS, XML and advanced search technologies" -- I pretty much agree, except I don''t know how much RSS portends the future. I would have said "the intersection of RDF, XML and advanced search." Expressing relations is the key element in this, IMHO.
Mr T wrote: Mr Bray is right about one thing - the Microsoft agenda. It will bode well for .NET to be linux compatible, but will Gates & co let it ?. I doubt it. Given the projected growth of Linux, .NET is not really helped that much never mind that nonesense called Mono.
.NET or .not Microsoft is no longer indispensable asfar as Software development is concerned. I dont do anything Microsoft and I''m very well paid, thank you very much.
Dan wrote: I am not an expert on the market between thin and fat client, but one thing I know is that MS is expensive. I would think considering the economics of maintaining desktops for corporations, their will be a tapestry of desktop environments with variations of Linux making headway. This will necessitate any app that a customer is going to utilize be accessible on both Linux and Windows with similar look and feel if not identical...kind of like the new Office suite coming out of China. I don''t see how writing to Win32 is beneficial when Win32 is only good in one market(albeit a very large market). I would imagine once the BPOs in India are proficient with administrating Linux desktops that Linux will start to eat away at the MS strangle hold on the corporate desktop. BTW, this opinion is coming from a Java developer that is developing in .Net.
Greg wrote: By "desktop applications" does he mean thick Win32 clients, as opposed to applications delivered through a browser? If so, dream on. After a decade of browser improvements, DHTML, CSS, JSP, PHP, etc. etc. etc. that technology is still incapable of supporting any substantial line of business applications. Its one thing to buy a book from Amazon, but it''s quite another to spend eight hours a day inside IE (or whatever). The real issue is solving the problems and hassles associated with enterprise-wide distribution of Win32 clients. Unfortunately, while .NET has some good parts to its story in that area, until they solve the issue of the .NET runtime not being widely preinstalled, .NET on the desktop is going to have the same slow adoption curve as J2EE on the desktop.
iyyappan wrote: Thin client is thin ice.
There will be some demand for Thin clients and some demand for Desktops.
Those who ignore Desktop may lose market.
iyyappan wrote: Thin client is thin ice.
There will be some demand for Thin clients and some demand for Desktops.
Those who ignore Desktop may lose market.
Ben wrote: Regarding the 80-20 stuff, all I will say is that if MS had launched something as small as Java 1.0 was (and naturally so, that was aeons ago) , it would have been dismissed immediately as not being substantial enough to compete. As it is in many places the .NET stack has more to offer than J2EE.
And on the comment that the API''s are inelegant the UI aesthetics juvenile,
a) How much programming has he actually done in .NET? Sure , some of it is only a thin wrapper over Win32 , but thats part of the plan from MS. They cannot easily rewrite millions of lines of code and thousands of API;s and they need to start with the wrappers and then go on to change the internals. The Win32 API''s are not elegant, but there is plenty in .NET that is. Come on, Java has been around for ages and ages. You would expect maturity from it given the amount of contribution from various companies. NET is...
Roger Sperberg wrote: Re: "next gen tech ... development at the intersection of RSS, XML and advanced search technologies" -- I pretty much agree, except I don''t know how much RSS portends the future. I would have said "the intersection of RDF, XML and advanced search." Expressing relations is the key element in this, IMHO.
Roger Sperberg wrote: Re: "next gen tech ... development at the intersection of RSS, XML and advanced search technologies" -- I pretty much agree, except I don''t know how much RSS portends the future. I would have said "the intersection of RDF, XML and advanced search." Expressing relations is the key element in this, IMHO.
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