This guy called scott is too full of himself. Anyway, I think the platform independence of Java has proven attractive to many developers since its inception and remains its strongest point. I think Sun's stewardship of Java TM has been excellent and they can be trusted to do what's best for Java.

Attempts by IBM and others to implement the java specification for their products e.g. websphere, BEA weblogic, etc would alrady have spawned a myriad of incompatible java platforms had it not been for Sun's compliance requirements (remember the path JBoss had taken before certification?).

Lets all be patient and have a little faith, a la James Gosling.

>Respond as you like - I won't see it.
Scott, on the off chance you do see this, I wish you well.

Guys, keep it civil. I''m getting tired of the people throwing invective around. I've not edited any threads yet; let's keep it that way, eh?

As far I know mono is suffering of the lack of information about .net documentation, so they cannot advance since they don''t know what to implement.
I really appreciate this project of mono, but that''s quite sure that M$ won''t release the necessary documentation, not before they have had lots of time to make their own use of it, and when they finally have new specifications, maybe they''ll release that one mono needs (for now), and will again continue with their politics of hiding APIs and interfaces.
Maybe the only chance will be to reverse engineer what is needed to complet mono.
It''s of M$ usual practices to deny access to information while it may leave them in advance, in a while they try to sabotage other products on their platform. Did all of you know what was stacker? or what happened to netscape? or why lotus 123, Harvard graphics, word perfect and lots of other good softwares or original ideas couldn''t raise in the unfertile soil of windows hidden APIs or just couldn''t work because a new boot mechanism didn''t let any way of loading your software. And what about that guy with his protocol for internet which was stolen and M$ now that made lots of money with that just had to pay almost nothing for the original owner? They get too much money that it''s economically viable to stole something and later pay for it with a thousand percent of profits.
Hope any of you one day suffer of having your ideas stolen and seeing your product being replaced by a poor copy that just is packed in windows, the idea is, do not have an good idea!!
These are M$ usual uncompetitive practices, and as thoug

>>Thank you for proving my point, your lack of humility is more apparent than ever<<
last post:
you''re very welcome and again, you''ve proven your ability to completely miss the point, disregard the substantive content, and focus on the trivial. Essentially I was saying, "mind your own business" - that post was to you - I don''t owe you humility - you certainly didn''t show me any. Respond as you like - I won''t see it.

>It''s not up to you to determine when someone does and does not have the right to repond to a post; I'll make the decision myself, thank you very much.

Thank you for proving my point, your lack of humility is more apparent than ever.

>>The mono project is working feverishly on SWF. It is far from completion, but is capable of running simple forms. It uses a tweaked library version of WINE for Win32 calls.>>

thanks for the info - I've heard of the project but haven't followed it. My background for many years has been commercial software development - not internal. I guess what I was trying to get at was that the final solution involves more than the software - it involves the deployment platform as well. We generally can't be constrained in that respect - if the customer runs Linux back ends, we'll deploy server side Linux solutions, same for Solaris, Windows, etc. Client side gui generally doesn't cause too many issues in my world but the platform independence of java is key to deploying on whatever back-end solves the problem for the customer. Still, I'll be interested in checking this out.

<>

I''m sorry you feel that way - the post I read was a very nasty attack on me, not on this forum - reread it. I was not apologized to, the forum was. I''d argue that anyone spoken to that way deserves an apology, for which I most certainly would have been accepting. I''d also say my response was pretty even tempered, given the attack that triggered it - far more gracious than was necessary. I''d also note that your "upbringing" comment was pretty snippy itself - pretty much misses the point of the entire exchange - also misses everything of substance I wrote. You might feel differently if you were the target. It''s not up to you to determine when someone does and does not have the right to repond to a post; I''ll make the decision myself, thank you very much.

>>I'm not aware of any port of the GUI portion - as far as I'm aware, the forms portion of .NET still calls directly into the Win32 API, just as MFC did. This requires, to my knowledge, a Windows deployment platform.

The mono project is working feverishly on SWF. It is far from completion, but is capable of running simple forms. It uses a tweaked library version of WINE for Win32 calls.

Scott,
Academic made his apologies. Your upbringing sounded wonderful, however it didn't teach you to accept contrition graciously. Rubbing his nose in it was unnecessary and deserves an apology.

Normally, I wouldn't even respond to this given it's
clear irrationality. 24 years in the industry have taught me that those who are unable to control themselves are best ignored. But, since you've posted since, in a somewhat more reasonable way, I will.

<<< Scott your such a winnie, >>>

Not sure what a winnie is, sorry.

<<< it's obvious you have emotional problems >>>

The absurd irrationality of your post, like the first - totally uncalled for and childish. I would argue that clearly unmanageable anger points toward emotional issues.

<<< , first of all grammer I am working unlike you and I am typing fast so get agrip it's obvious you do not have an education just by your attitude and response, >>>

23 years of software developement - mainframe/cobol to 2-tier client server (perhaps you''ve heard of a product called PowerBuilder - not such a big deal since 2-tier evolved but blew VB away in its time - worked on the development team that built it) to web-based app development (perhaps you''ve heard of a company called Amazon.com - worked on the team building their auction/ZShop/merchant platform) to IP telephony. My education is quite significant, as have been my engineering accomplishments. In my working world, communication skills are just as important as design and coding - you aren't taken seriously without both. Also, check your 2 posts - I'd say your attitude is pretty poor. If attitude is any indicator of education, which you suggest and I disagree with, I'd argue yours is lacking.

<< first of all .NET does not just run on Windows >>

I''m away of attempts to port it - I''m not aware of any significant use of it off windows - if I''m wrong I apologize. I''m not aware of any port of the GUI portion - as far as I''m aware, the forms portion of .NET still calls directly into the Win32 API, just as MFC did. This requires, to my knowledge, a Windows deployment platform.

<< second a framework is not what solves problems, i.e JavaSpaces is more a blue print than a framework, >>

I never mentioned framework in my post - I used the term platform. Your example here is of a framework that runs on the Java platform. Your initial post spoke of languages - my response was intended to point out that it''s not about the language. You can write Python and run it on a Java VM, for example. Where you come up with frameworks to respond to my post is unclear to me.

<>

People take me seriously based on the work I've delivered over the years, the problems I've solved and the revenue I've generated. What you say is pretty meaningless - it's what you do that matters. Take a second look at your 2 posts - I don't think you've got any business talking about manners. Oh, and by the way, I didn't learn manners (note, not manors) in school - they were taught to me as part of my upbringing. Seriously, reread that last post of yours. A forum for the exchange of ideas related to an article causes this kind of emotional turmoil in you? You should consider some help - or perhaps some time away from the anonymity of the internet.

Unix dying? Solaris dying? Please! When was the last time you looked at Solaris (wuz it called SunOS by any chance?) or actually tried it?

Nothing is perfect, there''s always compromise. Spend some time, evaluate, leave the ideology and bias behind, consider the right hardware platform and OS for the solution just as you do for languages, persistence, tools and other technologies.

Get Solaris x86 for free, try it and see for yourself. http://wwws.sun.com/software/download/operating_sys.html
You might just be suprised to discover what organizations using Solaris already know :) I use Solaris, Linux, and windows where and when indicated by the solution requirements. I use Java and occasionally JRuby on all of them. The Java platform unites them all.

Here are some links to get you started.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/12/10/sun_sets_solaris_x86_free/

http://www.serverwatch.com/news/article.php/3093001

http://www.storagepipeline.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=14800363

http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/faq/indexPerf.html

Great synthesis David!!! That''s all, they''ve made a treaty and will soon have the gates key for the hell. They pretend M$ doesn''t want java and linux dead, since are strong technologies, the only difference is, they cannot buy linux. But if they may influence in java development to make it a .net compatible, then why to choose java if that''s just a new flavor of .net?

The name ''Faust'' has become deeply rooted in European mythology as the name of a man who sold his soul to the devil in return for earthly power and riches.
or is it
The name ''SUN'' has become deeply rooted in IT mythology as the name of a company that sold its soul to the devil in return for earthly power and riches.

It seems to me there's a common enemy for Sun and Microsoft, that''s the Linux juggernaut. IBM, HP and other big companies are stepping up with Linux, so it's moved beyond the techie world of OSS and entered the mainstream of business. Both Solaris and Windows (server stuff) suffer under Linux, and Solaris is getting hit the hardest. It's too bad Sun hasn't shown a great commitment towards Linux rather than hoping it can prop up its Solaris business.