Richard Davies wrote: The UK has a good crop of technology pioneers in cloud computing - for example ElasticHosts, FlexiScale, Flexiant, OnApp - and also some strong government initiatives such as G-Cloud.
We will have to see whether this kind of technical leadership converts into swift mass-market adoption or not.
I used AppFuse and Spring together extensibly on two projects earlier this year with a lot of success. I added Spring support before it was part of the AppFuse core (for my projects). I have a lot of respect for Matt Raible's opinions. Matt is an awesome, dedicated technologist. I don't agree with him about JSF.
My last project that I finished was JSF + Spring + Hibernate on Tomcat 5 similar to AppFuse foundation, but using JSF. Matt has done some JSF + Spring work for the Spring book, and for a client. JSF is not part of AppFuse yet. I think once it is, he might have a different opinion.
I really dig JSF. I found it a lot more productive than Struts. I was amazed how fast I could crank things out. At the time, I did the project the JSF Spring integration was not working well so I skipped it. I used a base class for my JSF backing beans that looked up their corresponding business delegates. Other than that road bump, things went really well. JSF exceeded my expectations.
Now I cheated a bit. I wrote a JSF course and taught it several times before I worked on a JSF project. I also worked on a few small iterations on a few projects before doing an entire project in JSF (small project but still). I also consulted and helped architect a few JSF applications before I wrote one on my own. So.my experience...
The learning curve may be stiffer for starting out. When I wrote the course there were not any good JSF books out yet. Writing a course is a good way to learn how to do things. I improved the course based on my project experience, re-reading the spec., and reading every JSF book published. David Geary's book is an excellent reference, and I highly recommend it.
So how did my first project with JSF go....? My guess is that the same project would have taken twice as long if I did it with Struts instead of JSF because it was a fairly rich application (custom sorting, post backs to populate list boxes, auto populate fields based on user actions, etc.). JSF is much more natural than Struts. I think WebWork, and Spring MVC are improvements on Struts Model 2 MVC, but I have been bitten by the event-driven bug. The only other framework I would consider using instead of JSF would be Tapestry. In short, I dig JSF.
Apparently it is popular to bash Sun and J2EE. JSF does not deserve it.
I still respect Matt's opinion, and I am very grateful for AppFuse.
For me the killer stack is JSF + Hibernate + Spring. The verdict is still out on Tapestry (I need more experience with it).
About Rick Hightower Rick Hightower serves as chief technology officer for ArcMind Inc. He is coauthor of the popular book Java Tools for Extreme Programming, which covers applying XP to J2EE development, and also recently co-authored Professional Struts. He has been working with J2EE since the very early days and lately has been working mostly with Maven, Spring, JSF and Hibernate. Rick is a big JSF and Spring fan. Rick has taught several workshops and training courses involving the Spring framework as well as worked on several projects consulting, mentoring and developing with the Spring framework. He blogs at http://jroller.com/page/RickHigh.
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#7
Alexander Jesse commented on 28 Sep 2004
Sounds great.
Is this application already put into production? If so, some experience about performance already?
Are there already JSF-applications put into production? I'd like to hear about them to convince my managers ;-)
#6
Chris commented on 22 Sep 2004
Same as Greg. Yeah, what's the main advantages of JSF and Spring vs Struts? Struts is not just a bunch of JSP tags...
#5
Greg commented on 22 Sep 2004
Thanks Rick for telling us that you like Struts. Unfortunatly you don't tell us anything more than that, so the whole conversation is rather shallow :(
Although I'm not as high on JSF as Rick, I can say that the JSF-Spring integration is pretty good. The JSF-Spring project (jsf-spring.sourceforge.net) makes it possible for JSF-managed beans and Spring-managed beans to coexist. In fact, the integration significantly blurs the lines between Spring-managed and JSF-managed beans making it possible to configure JSF-managed beans in Spring's configuration files (to take advantage of Spring's Ioc and AOP features).
#3
Yakov Fain commented on 22 Sep 2004
We are planning to publish an article in November's issue of JDJ on using JSF/Spring/Hibernate in a Pet Store application
Awesome! Given that I am starting my first Spring/JSF or JSF/Spring project, I was wondering if you had any suggestions towards the integration of these two technologies.?. I started following the discussions on Spring site with regards to the different camps on how to "glue" the two together, and given your working experience and knowledge on this subject it would be a great if you could share some of this wisdom.
Thanks for this Rick! Reading in books all about how to use the JSF framework to build real-world web apps is one thing, hearing you say this here is somehow more real.
Alexander Jesse wrote: Sounds great.
Is this application already put into production? If so, some experience about performance already?
Are there already JSF-applications put into production? I'd like to hear about them to convince my managers ;-)
Greg wrote: Thanks Rick for telling us that you like Struts. Unfortunatly you don't tell us anything more than that, so the whole conversation is rather shallow :(
Craig Walls wrote: Although I'm not as high on JSF as Rick, I can say that the JSF-Spring integration is pretty good. The JSF-Spring project (jsf-spring.sourceforge.net) makes it possible for JSF-managed beans and Spring-managed beans to coexist. In fact, the integration significantly blurs the lines between Spring-managed and JSF-managed beans making it possible to configure JSF-managed beans in Spring's configuration files (to take advantage of Spring's Ioc and AOP features).
Yakov Fain wrote: We are planning to publish an article in November's issue of JDJ on using JSF/Spring/Hibernate in a Pet Store application
Yakov Fain, JDJ
Harold Neiper wrote: Rick,
Awesome! Given that I am starting my first Spring/JSF or JSF/Spring project, I was wondering if you had any suggestions towards the integration of these two technologies.?. I started following the discussions on Spring site with regards to the different camps on how to "glue" the two together, and given your working experience and knowledge on this subject it would be a great if you could share some of this wisdom.
Regards,
Harold
98ghp2 wrote: Thanks for this Rick! Reading in books all about how to use the JSF framework to build real-world web apps is one thing, hearing you say this here is somehow more real.
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