Richard Davies wrote: The UK has a good crop of technology pioneers in cloud computing - for example ElasticHosts, FlexiScale, Flexiant, OnApp - and also some strong government initiatives such as G-Cloud.
We will have to see whether this kind of technical leadership converts into swift mass-market adoption or not.
"Right now, you can do pretty much anything you want with the Java source code for non-commercial purposes except fork it and call it Java," said Sun's Matt Thompson last week - Director of Tech Outreach and Open Source Programs - in a Technical Exchange panel discussion called "Empowering Software R&D with Open Communities" held in the Hyatt Regency Harbor Room at the EclipseCon 2005 conference.
"If you do that," Thompson added, "we have a problem."
So, in essence, anyone is free to create an open source version of Java for non-commercial purposes. Did this herald, though, a full open-sourcing of Java? (By OSI standards, Java is far from being open source and is not yet available under any OSI-recognized license.)
All that Thompson would say was that Sun had plans to "ease the restrictions on commercial use of Java source code," and beyond that he would not go:
"We do plan to ease the commercial use restrictions on the Java source code, but I will not comment any further on that."
Fred Grott, a Java programmer and backend systems architect, commented that all Thompson is really saying is this: "Java already exhibits some of the benefits of open source via its vendor and developer controlled JCP standards and...[currently] Sun is analyzing whether the advantages gained by open sourcing Java would offset any disadvantages."
What used in the old days to be called "A Definite Maybe."
JDJ's own Bill Dudney observed, speaking exclusively to JDJ News Desk:
"I am ready to see closure on this issue. At JavaOne Sun was saying that they could see no benefit in making Java more open. I think they were wrong and I'm glad to hear that the forces to open Java are apparently pushing Sun towards that end."
Dudney continued:
"I also agree though that we don't need forked incompatible things called Java that are not, that would just serve to confuse the market. I hope to see an open Java with an open compliance suite, then we can be confident that we have the 'real thing' when using something called Java."
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Sun will never open source Java - its the only thing left with any value in the entire company.
#10
Icarus commented on 12 Mar 2005
Open sourcing the spec is the Java Community Process, and it's not really open source, it's a semi-open community process for influencing the direction of Java. Open Sourcing java would be changing the Sun Java License to an open source type of license. In which case, anybody could download the source and do whatever they wanted. As it is, Sun controls the release of java versions, and they decide what goes into a release, and for the most part, Sun engineers code and test the release.
#9
The Mothers of Microshrift Invention commented on 12 Mar 2005
>Didn't Microsoft try to make their own Java
>implementation(J++) and didn't sun go after them for it
>because it didn't stick to the java standards? Is that open
>source?
No, that was Microsoft trying to create a proprietary version of Java to tie developers to the the Microsoft platform. It was also a licensing terms violation, which the courts found for Sun. That's where C# comes from. It's a rip-off of Java with Microsoft proprietary hooks.
#8
anonymous commented on 8 Mar 2005
I have to support one purchased application that worked on J2RE 1.4.2_01, but Sun made a significant change to at least one API going to 1.4.2_02 that broke that application. I also have to support an application purchased from another vendor that requires at least 1.4.2_04 and does not run on 1.4.2_02. With Sun's every sub-sub-sub version being a fork, I can hardly wait for others to add to the confusion.
Whilst I can see the benefits of open sourcing java I just can't see how any open source organisation can take on something as big as Java especially the J2EE side of things with the compatibility suites used to certify J2EE compliance. Also, as a Java certified engineer, what will happen to any certification program?
IMHO - Open sourcing java is a nice idea in theory but not in practice.
#6
J-newbie commented on 8 Mar 2005
So, what's the difference between the Java *spec* being open source (which it is i think) and Java itself being open source? Can someone explain me in simple terms?
#5
nice2us commented on 7 Mar 2005
** [from the article] At JavaOne Sun was saying that they could see no benefit in making Java more open. I think they were wrong **
Seems now that Sun agrees.
#4
cervo commented on 7 Mar 2005
Didn't Microsoft try to make their own Java implementation(J++) and didn't sun go after them for it because it didn't stick to the java standards? Is that open source?
If you don't like the linux kernel you can take the code, make your own kernel, and even break whatever standards you want....Linus isn't going to drag you to court for breaking the POSIX standard or something.
Can the same be said or Java? In fact parts of it are still under a propietary license as the article states...so people who live in glass houses.....
Sun's entire contribution to Open Source at this point has been to try to hurt Microsoft by giving away an office suite that they bought from somebody else. At the same time, they've trash-talked Linux at every opportunity, and tried to steal the thunder of open source by releasing Solaris and Java under "community" processes that have the form but not the substance.
Does that sound to you like a company "on the same side" as something even as nebulous as the free software/open source community? It's not enough to be against Microsoft.
I don't mind the JCP as a way to manage the "official release" of Java. It seems to be working just fine.
What I do mind is obnoxious licenses limiting the freedom of end-users and hobbyists. They could very well be using the same process they're using today, but release their code (and specifications) under a free license.
#1
OSJava commented on 7 Mar 2005
## What used in the old days to be called "A Definite Maybe" ##
Perhaps so, but a "definite maybe" from Sun's own director of technology outreach puts the emphasis more on the definite and less on the maybe.
Icarus wrote: Open sourcing the spec is the Java Community Process, and it's not really open source, it's a semi-open community process for influencing the direction of Java. Open Sourcing java would be changing the Sun Java License to an open source type of license. In which case, anybody could download the source and do whatever they wanted. As it is, Sun controls the release of java versions, and they decide what goes into a release, and for the most part, Sun engineers code and test the release.
The Mothers of Microshrift Invention wrote: >Didn't Microsoft try to make their own Java
>implementation(J++) and didn't sun go after them for it
>because it didn't stick to the java standards? Is that open
>source?
No, that was Microsoft trying to create a proprietary version of Java to tie developers to the the Microsoft platform. It was also a licensing terms violation, which the courts found for Sun. That's where C# comes from. It's a rip-off of Java with Microsoft proprietary hooks.
anonymous wrote: I have to support one purchased application that worked on J2RE 1.4.2_01, but Sun made a significant change to at least one API going to 1.4.2_02 that broke that application. I also have to support an application purchased from another vendor that requires at least 1.4.2_04 and does not run on 1.4.2_02. With Sun's every sub-sub-sub version being a fork, I can hardly wait for others to add to the confusion.
Neale Napier wrote: Whilst I can see the benefits of open sourcing java I just can't see how any open source organisation can take on something as big as Java especially the J2EE side of things with the compatibility suites used to certify J2EE compliance. Also, as a Java certified engineer, what will happen to any certification program?
IMHO - Open sourcing java is a nice idea in theory but not in practice.
J-newbie wrote: So, what's the difference between the Java *spec* being open source (which it is i think) and Java itself being open source? Can someone explain me in simple terms?
nice2us wrote: ** [from the article] At JavaOne Sun was saying that they could see no benefit in making Java more open. I think they were wrong **
Seems now that Sun agrees.
cervo wrote: Didn't Microsoft try to make their own Java implementation(J++) and didn't sun go after them for it because it didn't stick to the java standards? Is that open source?
If you don't like the linux kernel you can take the code, make your own kernel, and even break whatever standards you want....Linus isn't going to drag you to court for breaking the POSIX standard or something.
Can the same be said or Java? In fact parts of it are still under a propietary license as the article states...so people who live in glass houses.....
SEE wrote: Sun's entire contribution to Open Source at this point has been to try to hurt Microsoft by giving away an office suite that they bought from somebody else. At the same time, they've trash-talked Linux at every opportunity, and tried to steal the thunder of open source by releasing Solaris and Java under "community" processes that have the form but not the substance.
Does that sound to you like a company "on the same side" as something even as nebulous as the free software/open source community? It's not enough to be against Microsoft.
Sunnan wrote: I don't mind the JCP as a way to manage the "official release" of Java. It seems to be working just fine.
What I do mind is obnoxious licenses limiting the freedom of end-users and hobbyists. They could very well be using the same process they're using today, but release their code (and specifications) under a free license.
OSJava wrote: ## What used in the old days to be called "A Definite Maybe" ##
Perhaps so, but a "definite maybe" from Sun's own director of technology outreach puts the emphasis more on the definite and less on the maybe.
Maybe? ;-)
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"Right now, you can do pretty much anything you want with the Java source code for non-commercial purposes except fork it and call it Java," said Sun's Matt Thompson last week - Director of Tech Outreach and Open Source Programs - in a Technical Exchange panel discussion called "Empowering Software R&D with Open Communities" held in the Hyatt Regency Harbor Room at the EclipseCon 2005 conference.
Rackspace Hosting, the service leader in cloud computing, on Thursday announced its acquisition of SharePoint911, an industry leader in SharePoint consulting, training, and "JumpStart" services within SharePoint. The unification of both companies provides capabilities to deliver ...
With Cloud Expo 2012 New York (10th Cloud Expo) now under four months away, what better time to start introducing you in greater detail to the distinguished individuals in our incredible Speaker Faculty for the technical and strategy sessions at the conference...
We have techn...
Nimble, the social CRM platform has announced the launch of Nimble 2.0, billed as the “most social” CRM platform on the market today. Nimble was designed entirely with social CRM in mind and is the first social business platform that empowers companies with the ability to get clo...
2011 was a year of rapid adoption for public and private cloud services. Instant and on-demand server provisioning was the driving force behind the massive growth. On top, cloud server templates and script automation simplified application installation for simple and pre-defined ...
"Having been in the IT field for many years, I believe the cloud computing chapter in the industry is an exciting one and I am proud to be a part of it," said National Reconaissance Office (NRO) Chief Information Officer Jill T. Singer Tuesday, as it was announced that she was on...
